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Deathly Hallows (spoileriffic)
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Deathly Hallows (spoileriffic)
Topic Owner: robyngirl
Topic: This topic is for discussion of the final book, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

Any and all spoilers for the book should be kept in here and out of the main discussion area, so those who have not read the book yet will have anything spoiled for them.

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows will be published July 21, 2007.

Cover art for the American and British regular and adult editions has been released. (High resolution full-cover images from The Leaky Cauldron's galleries.)
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I think the thing about the Thestrals has been answered by Jo already in one of her interviews. This is the quote pulled out of Quick Quotes from her appearance at the 2004 Edinburgh Book Festival (near the bottom of the page):

In the fifth book, Harry can see the Thestrals. Can you?

Yes, I can, definitely. That is a really good question, because it enables me to clear up a point. The letters that I’ve had about the Thestrals! Everyone has said to me that Harry saw people die before could see the Thestrals. Just to clear this up once and for all, this was not a mistake. I would be the first to say that I have made mistakes in the books, but this was not a mistake. I really thought this one through. Harry did not see his parents die. He was one year old and in a cot at the time. Although you never see that scene, I wrote it and then cut it. He didn’t see it; he was too young to appreciate it. When you find out about the Thestrals, you find that you can see them only when you really understand death in a broader sense, when you really know what it means. Someone said that Harry saw Quirrell die, but that is not true. He was unconscious when Quirrell died, in Philosopher’s Stone. He did not know until he came around that Quirrell had died when Voldemort left his body. Then you have Cedric. With Cedric, fair point. Harry had just seen Cedric die when he got back into the carriages to go back to Hogsmeade station. I thought about that at the end of Goblet, because I have known from the word go what was drawing the carriages. From Chamber of Secrets, in which there are carriages drawn by invisible things, I have known what was there. I decided that it would be an odd thing to do right at the end of a book. Anyone who has suffered a bereavement knows that there is the immediate shock but that it takes a little while to appreciate fully that you will never see that person again. Until that had happened, I did not think that Harry could see the Thestrals. That means that when he goes back, he saw these spooky things. It set the tone for Phoenix, which is a much darker book.

So, yes, Lily did die 'right in front of him', but being a year old and in his crib or what have you, he didn't really see it happen. Not to mention the fact that people don't process events, no matter how traumatic, when they're only a year old.

On Voldie's body: He'd been disembodied (not sure how, really) when the Killing Curse backfired, so it doesn't matter what happened to his body. He wafted out the door or something, I guess. Kind of like a ghost, but not really? Whatever remained of his soul in that body was floating around until it ran into Quirrel in Albania years later. Not that hard to imagine, since he could put parts of his soul into objects.

'At first glance': We see everything from Harry's point of view except for about four chapters in the whole series. And that's the problem, isn't it? Everything we learn is colored by Harry's perception of it. Sometimes his perceptions are right: Malfoy really was up to something in HBP. But we can't take everything we learn through him for granted. Snape would be the hardest person to really get a sense of, even if we didn't have Harry's perceptions clouding our information. He keeps his true intentions to himself, and we may not find out what they are until the very end, if ever. (I think we'll find out, but I could see us never truly knowing. ^^; Snape's difficult in that way.)

And this got longer than I intended. XD This is what I get for trying to keep my mind off my jaw pain. ;_; I'm surprised I missed that show, beth. I just never heard about it. ^^;
I was too angry at most of the deaths to cry about them, and too busy reading during the others. I only cried when Harry brought back his parents, Sirius, and Lupin. Because that's when the fact that Lupin and Tonks were really dead caught up with me.

The best parts for me were the death of Bellatrix, Dumbledore laughing at Harry in the train station death hallucination, Luna's ceiling, and Neville telling what happened when they tried to arrest his Gran. XD

I thought, from the beginning, that Snape must have loved Lily. It was only obvious. I was touched that they'd been childhood friends. I was sad that it had been a creepy stalker kind of love.

I very much liked the moral of the story - the whole story, from start to finish. Again and again, Harry became outraged when people used "he was young" as an excuse for bad behavior. Of course people can change, of course people can repent, of course people can atone, and of course people can be forgiven. But you can't unring a bell, and if you know better you should do better because it can't be taken back. Just ask Snape, who lost his best friend because of an unfortunate choice of words.
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I guess I liked it? I need to digest it and reread parts, but the boyfriend is borrowing it so he'll have read it before Prophecy.

Some of the deaths seemed rather pointless, but then again most deaths are in war. The epilogue at the end seemed vaguely out of place and I could have totally done without it. I think it was fairly obvious by the end who the couples were and that they would end up together since they were still alive at the end.

I liked the bits in Godric's Hollow and with Kreacher. I think there were a lot of parts that I was satisfied with, regardless if they made me happy or sad. More like I wanted something like this or that to happen?

The whole Snape & Lily thing...okay, I have to say I was thinking "I know I've read a fanfic like this" the whole time I was reading that chapter. I guess it was just really obvious to most of us?

Molly v. Bella was excellent. I kind of wanted to see a little more resolution with Draco, oh well.

I can't think of anything else at the moment. My mouth still hurts, and I have to deal with 10 kinds of stupidity since I was out of the office for a day and a half. --; But I need to reread half the book! >.>
Who was Victoire supposed to be? Are we to gather that she's Bill & Fleur's daughter? (One of the many many kids mentioned something about her and Teddy and him finally being formally part of the family? Though what Teddy was doing there, since he would be 19 at the time, I don't know. *sigh* Yay for incorrect timelines. :P)

Percy. I have to say I was actually quite happy about that part. Good for him, realizing, and, more importantly, admitting to the world that he had been a total fool. Takes a lot to admit you made such a stupid mistake sometimes. :)
I think Teddy was supposed to be seeing her off? Likely, Victoire is a 7th year and Teddy is her slightly older boyfriend. And it was mentioned that Victoire is a cousin, so yeah I assume she's Bill and Fleur's.

I would have liked more closure with the other characters, but JK encourages fan-fiction, maybe that's why she was so sketchy?
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lbeth - I think I was kind of aware that she encouraged fandom theorizing, though I don't follow everything word for word. ^^; It's cool that she would support it though. :) I know she does visit fansites. (She has that fansite award thing she hands out sometimes. I know Leaky got one at some point.)

Since I read the epilogue Saturday night, I don't recall it word for word. I figured it was something to that effect, though, and I had gathered Victoire was Bill & Fleur's because Victoire is the French form of Victoria. Plus, they're the most likely of the Weasleys to have a child in 7th year.
Woe is Rowling if she crosses Lisa. XD

Yeah, no Lupin dying.

Also, no Molly Weasley or Tonks. I like them too much.

*cackles madly*

Epilogue -- needed to keep fanfiction under control but a total waste of my time.
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Does anyone remember that quote about a muggle using magic in a time of great need? yeah...what happened to that?
Yeah, I remember JKR said that we'd see a squib perform magic later in life. She also hinted that we'd see Fawkes again, and way back when she said that she couldn't talk about the 12 uses of Dragon's Blood because they would be important. I guess they didn't make it into the book after all.

I really don't care much about the Squib thing, since we've known for a long time that Aunt Petunia is definitely not a squib--I really don't care enough about Mrs. Figg or Filch or Ron's accountant relative. But I was sad that we didn't see Fawkes or get to find out stuff about Dragon's Blood.

I really liked the book overall. But the epilogue... Yeah, it made me roll my eyes a lot. Those poor, oddly-named children.
Not enough music and too much math,
on a long circuitous path, just along for the ride
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Haha, so is that why we haven't seen Lisa? Is she on her way to England as we speak? ^^;

The one name was a bit of a mouthful, but I suppose it's sweet. And Draco's family does go for the really astronomical names, so that one wasn't all that surprising.

You know, I was wondering where Fawkes flew off to. Guess we'll never know, now.

Maybe she'll put out some sort of reference volume with all the extra information she'd dreamed up but never got to include in the books. Would be interesting to read, that's for sure. That, or Hograts, A History. How excellent would that be? :)

Has anyone run into anyone that's *liked* the epilogue. I think we're all really blah about it and I know I could have stopped reading at the end of the last chapter instead and been content. ^^;
Well, Rowling did say that some people would hate the ending and some people would love it. :) It's like that with any book or movie, though. Any story, really. (Or anything, for that matter. XD) You can't please everyone all of the time. At least I think most people are pleased with the book as a whole. For what it was, it worked, but I go back and forth about it. I'll remember something I liked, then something I didn't. That's why I'm meh about it. ^^;

I feel like I want to start a discussion on something from the book, but I don't know what. @_@ My brain simply refuses to compute at the moment. (I think it's the fact that it's nearly lunchtime. XD)
Neville wasn't chosen though.

In fact, Harry's early hero status was due entirely to external events and had nothing to do with him as a person. Without Dumbledore's encouragement and guidance he would never have been put in a position to take Voldemort down.

Neville being a hero had much less to do with the expectations and actions of others. Harry was the only one that could do what he did, Neville stepped up and did what he could have left for someone else.

Harry was chosen, Neville chose.

But Neville's actions do show that either of the babies the prophecy could have referred to posed a significant threat to Voldemort.
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You all must have missed the part in the epilogue where it said, "Oh yeah! Lupin and Tonks didn't die! They were just pretending! They also took in Hedwig (who totally survived) and Fawkes!"

I saw that part. It was my favorite part of the book.

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I think that Either Harry or Neville could have been "the chosen one" had Voldy gone to the other house instead... Voldy did the choosing when he decided which child was the threat. I'm sure Neville's mom would have done the same magic (sacrificed her life) as Lily. But, then the plot would have unwound differently since Snape wasn't in love with Neville's mom.

"Snape loves YOUR mom"
"Nuh-uh... Snape loves YOUR mom!"
"Don't talk about my mom that way!"
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I'm pretty sure Lisa wrote it in herself. XD
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Ooooh, I want to live in Lisa-land! *_*

Y'know, they got killed off in reverse order. The Marauders that is. Reverse order from how they're listed on the Map. Yay for random trivia. >.>
She did forget to mention that Fred was living with them. He's totally alive. It's all just a big joke, kind of like Harry's "death"...

I was sad that they didn't name any of their kids Fred >:O!!
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Argh. So Lupin died because Jo wanted to make sure there were 4 people Harry regarded as parental figures in that walking-through-the-forest scene.

I have to admit, the only reason there was any emotional impact in that for me was because of Lupin. And I would have flipped out if Arthur Weasley had died in 5. @_@ Srsly.

I still get to hate her for it, even if I understand why she did it, right?
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Yeah, I would have flipped too, if Arthur had died in OOtP. The funny thing is, when I first read book five, I knew that a character died, but I didn't know who. I kind of forgot this as I was reading, until right in the middle of that chapter, when I went, "Oh my God, not Mr. Weasley!"

An interesting thing occurred to me: Harry is pretty much the black-headed stepchild in the Weasley family. (Reversing the usual connotation of the phrase along with the hair color, of course.) Kinda cute, huh?
Not enough music and too much math,
on a long circuitous path, just along for the ride
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Aside from the fact that I have never supported the OBHWF, I really liked the epilogue. I loved that Harry named one of his sons Albus Severus, and the bit where he defended Snape, one of his supposed worst enemies made me cry. I was already crying but that made me cry harder. Then again, I think everyone knows what a big Snape fan I am.

I was only disappointed in the epilogue because I wanted to know what happened to Luna. Since re-reading the books in preparation for DH, Luna recaptured my attention and I really fell in love with her.

I was amazingly upset over the death list. I was relieved to see McGonagall survive though, and Hagrid. But come on, man... Dobby? Dobby dies and Kreacher lives and turns all warm and fuzzy? And my poor Snape. ;_;

I'm totally going to have to read it again next week, after giving the first run a chance to really sink in. I didn't do too badly today though for the first read-through. Took me from about 4:00 to 11:30, with an hour's break for eating and bathroom breaks.
"Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead. Don't turn your back. Don't look away. And don't blink."
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I just finished the book tonight and wow. Sad it's over now. Gotta find something else to read o_o
When I finished the last chapter I was like yay! The epilogue was really thick, it was nice to see that Ginny and Harry hooked up and Herm and Ron.. and that everyone's happy etc etc. but it was like the Brady bunch or something... or when an anime ends and everyone is laughing at a stupid joke.
Would have been better for fanfic writers if Harry's scar started hurting again
duh duh duh!

Kley: but Fred would be a normal name. They obviously wanted oddly named children, I'm surprised one wasn't named Kleytus o.o
I solemnly swear I am up to no good.
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